Quality Erections: Accident or Genius Marketing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9cTAOZ9mX8
Video Transcript
Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to another episode of the OnTap podcast we have with us joining today local man myth legend Steve Kelling uh CEO of Sherman Buildings in Mora Minnesota steve thank you for joining us today wow what an introduction uh thank you for having me uh I have no idea what to expect today but I'm sure that it's going to be fun no doubt it'll be fun so the first thing that I wanted to bring up was that Sherman is known for their edgy marketing i mean if you live in Minnesota you have seen your quality erections billboard you have sayings like erect to protect you have a sign on your shop outside that says big deck energy how did these things even get put into play and was there ever a point where someone was like maybe we shouldn't do that were was anyone nervous about how it was going to be received well all of the other good words were used already so we wanted to find uh uh words that weren't overplayed already and um to to get to quality erections that was uh uh probably a couple of decades of slightly different phrases that kind of cumulated was there anything that was like this is too risqué like we can't uh every every once in a while and there's certainly been uh staff and family members uh throughout the years who have not approved or currently don't necessarily approve um but it's you have to get noticed for somebody to for people to find you and to take the time to find out okay who are these people really what what is their real story and if you're just a blur in the background uh you don't get that that opportunity to show people who we really are totally yeah do you ever get people that are negatively receiving this where they're like "Oh that company." Um ve very small minority i mean obviously if if there was overwhelming anger and disapproval we'd probably uh you know we might change but uh maybe once a month somebody else send an email um and I'm we're not sure what their perspective is or what you know they're thinking directly but um uh yeah for for every one of those we get at least 100 to a thousand people who are like that you know driving by your billboards is the highlight of my commute every day um that's how I get through life absolutely i mean I think especially people from Pine City were on 35 all the time i I pass billboards every single day i don't even notice them but your guys' billboards they just stick out it's like every time you get a little bit of a laugh and I like how there's a couple different versions that you get to see and I it it's genius i love it i mean the job of marketing is to inspire right so when somebody uh didn't realize that they needed a pole shed and they see one of our billboards find out who we are and realize you know I've been wasting my life away living in the city and not being a land owner in the country where I can get a pull shed and it completely changes their lives i mean we're doing our job we're changing the world yeah one erection at a time one erection at a time exactly with the age of social media and advertising through that would you still say that billboards are key to getting your your name out to the people well because it's a it's a more limited resource on online with Tik Tok or or Instagram there's an unlimited um uh advertising space really for for attention well uh on the freeway there are only so many billboards there's only so much space so if you can acquire um a billboard or or get a lease on one you've now got an opportunity in a limited u media to you know share your share your message with so that's why I think it is still very still relevant more relevant than newspaper more relevant than just about anything else from the old days yeah i because driving is never going to go away people are going to like newspaper i have never bought a newspaper in my life and I probably never will just from being in the generation I'm I'm in but I'm gonna be driving forever right right i'm I'm going to be listening back to this in my hover car 5 years from now and being like "This didn't age well." So the uh the questions that we have about should we do this have to do with um like our billboards trying to uh find find all of our different billboards and take a selfie with it you know because that could involve you know somebody driving and so that's where we draw the line like we don't want anybody get hurt on the on the highway trying to win a contest so now speaking of marketing I guess you guys have moved to more of a digital approach to your marketing as well and you guys have started to have a bigger presence online on social media you as we sit right here you guys just had a clip get 3.7 million views and um now I guess my question for you is in construction in general why do you think that it seems to be taboo that people don't put themselves out there more uh like their personal out there more of like from the business perspective I guess well I think there's this uh this counterintuitive thought that if you share too much about who you are and how you know what your personal formula to success is that somebody might steal it and uh so I think that's why people try to hide uh who they are this is we want you to see our brand we want you to see you know the select information that we have on our website we want you to see our product and we want to control everything the chaos that's in the background that it takes to happen uh to to deliver the product where the reality is um reasonable people realize that chaos is everywhere we're all living in constant chaos uh at the end of the day it's can you get the job done can you produce a nice product can you be a service provider that people can trust and rely on um but there's always going to be disaster in the background there's always going to be something that's happening and so I think that a lot of businesses you know aren't uh you know willing to to to show what is it the phrase uh you know how the how the sausage is made you know but it's all made the same it's all a show um but at the end of the day that that's what we as uh owners and managers are doing is trying to control the chaos and bring it to a point where here it is here's the final product delivered as perfectly as pleasing to you as we possibly can yeah do you think that that viral clips like something like this that's totally unrelated to the Sherman brand there's no logo in it there's no nothing do you think that this translates to more business for you guys um I think that when we try to go after things too directly uh and our focus is uh too much to the point um it's sniffed out as unauthentic and and ignored too salesy too salesy and so no uh we want to show to to us it's as much about showing uh potential uh uh staff members crew members admin who we are as it is to customers um we all work at different places for different reasons well uh a lot of it is the environment the culture uh we're we want to be a great place uh to work at so if if we put out a video that's about life working at Sherman uh that is as valuable to us as a video that's appealing you know directly to a customer and it's going to produce a sale today that's that's that's never going to happen uh it's a it's a depth of uh exposure and knowledge and awareness of who we are yeah so brand awareness is I guess more of a priority than it would be to like here's who we are buy our we're definitely not an impulse buy you know you don't drive by see a billboard and go "You're damn right i need a pole shed put me on the list." You know it's a very long process especially for you know somebody who's building a a new home or trying to acquire land uh it take it can take months it can take years of planning um yes there's always the people that have been you know that are way ahead of that and now we might be on their list to call this weekend because they're at the stage where now's the time to start getting quotes and start talking to talking to companies but um no it's it's it's all about planting seeds and that long that long exposure and and recognition having a a pull shed is not something you just need that you want to do or typically need to do it's not something that someone just makes a rash decision on and there's a lot of companies that can give them a product but at least with your company they're able to see who's going to be working on their project who they're working with in the office you can see you get a vibe of what's going on with the company and just get to know your company a little bit better and so I I it makes complete sense that people are just more comfortable with your company in general because they just can find out more about you instead of just a website with pictures of past projects and that's about it yeah it's it's it's it's it's a very scary thing to expose yourself in any you know situation you know we all want to have these facades and we all want to paint this picture that we want the rest of the world to see us by but again rational thinking people know that that's you know that's not real we are real people we're a real family we have real family issues just like everybody else does we have real employee issues uh it from mother nature to the government regulations and codes and insurance and uh financing and uh every possible thing that everybody else is struggling with everyday life in everything that we do yeah that that's what we have that's who we are as a company too but again uh at the end of the day if you're not um uh creating an environment where the entire team has the same goal and they all want to work together like we have a very long tenure not very not not not very much turnover at our organization so every time we do something and we learn from it and we make it better we we maintain that knowledge for decades uh by not having rapid turnover and having to start that process all over again so we're real people um and you want to come see uh what it's like in the kitchen you know be our guest watch us on social media or stop by our office miked up Mondays walk up to my office and we'll just hang out and you can see what I do all day i mean you can see how the sausage is made exactly and I mean I obviously think it's fun i'm sure most people get bored after a few minutes of "Wow your your job is almost as horrible as mine is." But yeah yeah i mean well part of that too is like the dynamic of everyone that works there a lot of it is family so how do you guys in your organization like or like like uh you know navigate that whole landscape of there being a unique dynamic between like the people that you're around are also your family members it doesn't seem to work out very well for for most families that attempt to do it and so I mean I I really don't know because do they all just listen to me and then you know so that reduces a lot of conflict yeah now they all argue with me uh because I come up with a thousand ideas a day and 999.9 of them get rejected uh and it's it's total honesty right uh nobody's going to say "Yeah that's a good idea." If they don't actually you know think that it is um I think it's respect uh it's holding each other accountable um and just all having the same goals but we don't have personalities that uh mimic each other either every family member is different has different interests within the company different areas departments that uh that that they're passionate about so you know that's just luck right that we don't have uh two people that are want to be doing exactly the same thing so that helps a lot i mean I I I wouldn't recommend it you know to anybody just because of statistically uh it it doesn't it doesn't work out and for whatever reason it it works out for us i've noticed that in my time spent over there that I've thought I've always thought it was very interesting like your kids call you Steve you call your kids by their first name like there's no like mom dad aunt uncle whatever you know it's it's everyone's first name is that intentional or is that just uh probably is because I mean we typically spend more time together at work and so we don't you know use that uh those type types of words at work and then does it you know bleed over into personal life too probably but not all the time yeah you know if if it's Christmas and we're taking a lot of time off and hanging out a lot then I will actually hear the word dad a lot you know um and then it's like we go go back to work you know after the holidays and it's like Steve okay we're back to work now so it's it's I think it's probably a subconscious just to avoid discomfort for employees yeah have to listen to somebody saying dad you know or uncle you know all the time yeah um and that's it's not like a hard rule or anything but yeah with and with any family dynamic in any business there's always going to be some weird contention around like this person has a better opportunity because of their last name or because of who they're related to and I've noticed that's one thing with Sherman that doesn't apply if you're a good worker and you do a good job at what you do you're going to move up ahead of someone else just because of their last name now obviously this is intentional but how have you guys made this conscious decision to be like you know obviously we can't pick favorites if this is going to be a successful company i mean I'm sure there is i um I mean it would be silly to to to say that um that every single family member has earned their position i'm sure that there are you know circumstances where somebody got fasttracked into an opportunity but at the end of the day if they're not respected by their uh their co-workers and by the people that they're supposed to lead they're just going to fail they're just going to wash out anyway um you know power isn't something that can be given to anybody it's taken uh like it or not sometimes in history very brutally but uh power you know you can't be ordained with power at least not to last maybe in an election you know until the next cycle but I mean out there in the real world if you want people to follow you uh take direction not ignore you not talk behind your back I mean you you have to earn that regardless of what your last name is um you know probably a hundred times in my career somebody's asked for a promotion of authority and power and it's like dude if you want it just take it uh just do it and the leaders that are at Sherman right now are not people that were prompted or teed up to do that they just they just took it and the rest of us were like "That's awesome." Hey everybody else see what he just did there if you want that job title just take it and if you do and nobody follows you you're gone yeah it's just not going to work anyways you weren't meant for the position you can't you can't if you can't prove that you can do it then and what's the special formula for that i mean yeah you have to be knowledgeable obviously but uh you have to give a lot of respect in order to in order to get it back right and so the people that figure out you know a formula that gets people to follow them I mean cult of personality you know that's some people have it naturally some people learn uh from mistakes and cultivate it within themselves um but yeah there's that that is all of life yeah but what you want you have to take for those that don't know what is Sherman Buildings and what do you do um so uh postframe construction uh back in the day they were called pole barns or pole sheds uh then for a while it was real uh popular to call them uh postframe buildings uh I I like barns uh sheds that That's what we build we build sheds for your stuff uh in a lot of circumstances your if you have a home with an attached garage it's pretty full with your uh commuter cars uh your uh Christmas boxes decorations all of that stuff your stuff yeah the Yeah the things that oh I'm going to get to that box someday you know 10 years from now you're going to throw in a dumpster that's that's what's in your garage right uh the shed is for all the other cool stuff your four-wheeler your boat your RV your camper your motorcycle that you know restoration project that you're working on that's by far the majority of our work um a lot of uh barn companies do build uh livestock uh uh agricultural buildings we do some but in our particular geography where we're where we're at there's just not a ton of that like there is in other areas um but we do some um some commercial light industrial uh and a lot of homes yeah the barniniums barn homes yeah that's the new new trend these days it is it is uh and it's taken a long time to get here so I built myself um my first one in the early 2000s uh and I remember going to the appliance store and and my wife and I were picking out you know refrigerator and washer and dryer and all the stuff for the for the kitchen and uh the I've known the dude for you know most of my life and and he looks at me and says "Steve I can't install a washer and dryer on a dirt floor." What the are you i'm going to have concrete and then I'm going to put you know tile on top of that when was this uh this early 2000s so this is before it was like a common Yeah yeah like like I did it because it just made sense to me i build sheds i insulate them all the time usually in in like a workshop or a commercial environment we're putting steel on the inside uh walls and ceiling but it's the same insulation it's the same vapor barrier it's the same HVAC systems it's the same electrical it's the same kitchens it's the same everything just put drywall on and put carpet or tile or nice flooring down do how was that how was that received were people like "What are you doing?" Yeah yeah they thought I was crazy um because it had been being done but it was like done for hunting shacks or you know just very very rare or it was taking an actualund 150 year old barn and and and building it into a man cave kind of thing so it wasn't super popular um and then uh one of my co-workers did the same thing and then onesie twoosy you know they just started popping up and at the time we're building just regular conventional homes uh basement block foundations uh which you see every day um customers would walk in and they would ask they would act embarrassed asking the question you know that was a really nice shed yeah yeah blah blah blah uh you know do people ever live in those yeah dude i do but they'd heard of it but to say it out loud you know they they felt silly asking about it like whether it was a real thing and then as it started to become more popular um we were starting to to transition from conventional home construction to postframe to barnaminiums uh but the financial world wasn't uh Oh yeah latching on to it it was seen the same as you know an old uh manufactured home like an old trailer house so people weren't willing like these banks weren't willing to lend money on these kind of places when they first started and luckily a a gal who was on her way up north driving up Highway 65 uh popped in she's from the banking world and and just started asking questions and and she's like "Yeah I'll talk to my boss but I think uh I think we'll we'll finance them." And that's been you know a 20-year relationship now where they've they've been willing to treat you know that type of construction the same as conventional construction and of course now that everybody's on the bandwagon everybody's on the bandwagon yeah right so financing now is is a non-issue if you were to say like put a conventional stick built house next to the comparable barnaminium version of it what would be the price comparison between the two um the barno will be more expensive because uh in a conventional house there's not a lot to get excited about you've seen it all it's all the same as your neighbors it's it's nothing but as soon as you start the bar the barno process and you see the possibilities you dig deeper into your pockets and you find more so that you can have more no I'm just kidding that that that that has happened and it does happen but I mean if you're truly talking about apples to apples I mean there might be about a 20% difference more on the Barnardium side savings on the on the Barno side savings on the Barno side if you were to do it comparably correct if you were take the same same finishes same everything really for sure i've always been told that they're a lot more expensive and that's kind of like the general the the the story I told for Yeah once you get involved and you see all the possibilities you can literally lot to get excited about and so yeah they do end up spending you know typically uh way more than than they than they intended to because they see the value in it right oh for this much money I can get this many more square feet or I can have that you know a bigger kitchen an extra bathroom yeah and I suppose it's just not that easy on a stick build house cuz it's you're getting into like structural engineering yes basically in a barn you can design this box however you want yeah like we don't I mean the truth is you can in a conventional house too but there's just too much uh conventional um thought processes that that tie people up psychologically like oh this is how this is how this is done this is how this goes and when you switch to a baro and you've been told well you can do anything you want well that's when they believe you you can do anything you want you can always do anything you want it's just easier to accept that reality when it's a barno because there's not decades of uh of uh that's been burned into people's brains about what their limitations are no there are no limitations do whatever you want that's deep that's very philosophical of you now take all my money how how long has Sherman been in business for how many years since 1976 yeah yeah that's on the fine print on the billboards quality erection since 1976 so in in your time and with your experience with the company how has materials and techniques changed over time i can only assume things in the 70s were done a little bit different than they are now yeah for sure uh materials so what you see on the outside the the steel uh skin that's um covers the the walls and the roof uh yeah back in the 70s and and well into the 80s uh trims were very limited uh the first buildings you just instead of having a nice finished corner to make the transition from roof to wall you just leave the the roof steel a little bit longer and just kind of roll it over and fold it fold it onto the wall you know drive some lead nails in you know through it to hold it down uh ridges were just you know kind of bent over you didn't you didn't terminate at this corner and this corner and then put a trim piece on you just kind of folded it over and kept going right uh sizes varieties colors textures uh profile shapes were extremely limited uh steel lengths came in two foot increments so if you wanted an odd size uh size building you had to pay for the next two foot increment up the rest of it you know and recycling wasn't a big thing back then either so it just you know went into the landfill or some place or hole dig a hole whatever you know something yeah i'm I'm sure the evol evolution of tools too has made just the onsite work night and day different yeah yeah for sure so as the product became more uh popular um so did all of the materials to accomplish it um got more sophisticated and more available you know when when you're building a a shed 10 or 15 feet away from a home you don't want a them to be too contrasting in their finish material you know curb appeal so has come a long ways and tools yeah i I I'm there there's a lot of stuff out there and some of it is worthwhile but think a lot of it snake oil yeah i mean I can cut steel with a old-fashioned tin snips faster than and more accurately than you can with a a fancy $2,000 tool hot take i feel like it's like that's the thing you have to have this new tool otherwise it's not as efficient yeah sure i mean it replaces knowledge and experience uh but if you have knowledge experience yeah you cut it with your teeth and do Okay so what's the deal but when I'm driving down the road I see these barns that have a like white strip on both sides on the tin separating the side why is that uh it was like a 70s uh fashion thing really i mean that that's literally all it was um skip uh so if your background color primary color is red uh you might have a white corner your first piece of steel red and then whoa let's do the next piece white they go back to red and terminate you know have the same pattern you know on on all the corners um so yeah it's it's definitely a a fad thing that happened for a while and in fact um my wife and I just uh um bought some bought a piece of property that had a pole building on it it has a pole building on it and we looked at the property several times and I didn't really pay attention to the shed that much to go look at it to see if it was a Sherman and it wasn't until I think our third visit out to the property that I really stopped to look at the shed and I'm like "Holy this is a Sherman." And and I never considered that it was because it was exactly what you're saying it had those accent stripes on it and we almost never did that because we thought it was so silly and it was going to date the building so badly but obviously if somebody wanted it we weren't going to say no to them but sure enough it it's actually a Sherman that's so funny how do you know by the way that it's built um well you look for indications that would that would disqualify it right so uh at first uh the farther away you are right you can't tell the difference but as you get closer and you start to look at more details the way that the windows are framed the way that the service door uh this one happens to have a sliding door um just all of the little details of construction and if you can't see one that disqualifies it as a Sherman methodology well then it's a Sherman right but I mean we've we've had to go out um people making false uh warranty claims and you have to go out there because if the property changes hands you know we still try to service that building right and uh go out there and look at it and it's like all right I know for positive because we we have really really good records back to 1999 but before that uh you know they're in boxes or you know who who the hell knows where where those records are so we don't have a lot of good stuff to go back and see if it is for sure but if we go and physically look at it we can see certain details that we know we've never done that 10,000 20,000 buildings I don't know how many it is but not one of them ever had that detail yeah has there ever been a scenario where you were like "We didn't make this." And yes you did no we did not and here's why yeah yeah yeah um I mean not a lot probably i I remember it happening at least two or three times where somebody was trying to say though that that's a Sherman i was like "Well okay it's not no it's not we're not fixing it but we'll build you a new one." Yeah yeah um and it's not even just you know just about who's responsible or whatever it's just like I I didn't build it because I know you know some particular detail to something or or a brand a brand of steel or a brand of door that Yeah you just don't use Yeah no that makes sense yeah um so you guys have been going since 1976 who started Sherman Pole Buildings um my dad did um and so our last name family name is Kellen but my mother's name is Sherman so uh the family decided to use that name instead of Kelling it's just for marketing it's easier to use sherman sounds better than Kelling that was all it came down to well I wouldn't say it sounds better it's just easier to recognize i mean if you hear it once or twice it's going to start to stick um and uh honestly back then you know when everybody had a phone book and they would just flip through and see your name and your address we didn't really like the idea of having our business name the same as our last name yeah and then anybody with uh you know found a box of shells and a and a bad attitude could find your address that easily yeah no that's a that's a good point so this is coming from the idea that like I don't even want to be in the same relative vicinity in the directory of the thing was there ever a thought like if we sell this we don't want us to be the business we want it the business to be the business yeah i I mean so it it maybe it sounds like I'm being uh a hypocrite here but yeah we do live and breathe our business but um a lot of us live very very close in fact um where the lumberyard sits um the it's on was on is is on a 20 acre uh piece of property that uh my parents bought and they built a house on that property with the business and then my older brother and I each had homes on the same property so we really never had a choice we could never get away and then when the business name is the same as your name you know not only are you physically close but you're easy to track down to yeah because the mailboxes are all the same right and it it is a small enough town so obviously everyone already knows locally but I could see what you're saying it was just it was just one layer of separation should we ever feel the the need hey let's just Hey how about it's Christmas and we all just chill out you know yeah and we don't you know we don't have to be on our phones or or be uh in meetings all day today because it's Christmas yeah how much how much of that grind mentality actually contributes to success when it comes to building a construction business at what point is it you know safe or healthy to be like "Hey let's just not work right now because a I mean obviously it's no secret like if you want to grow you have to do that but at what point do you stop and be like I don't know it's tough because everything is a slippery slope right whether you're going falling uphill or falling downhill you know there's always momentum and as soon as you say "Yeah you know uh I think we're good." Yep yep we're at this size we're We're at this comfort level let's just try to coast um you know I'm sure that if you're just you know years away from retirement and you don't have any succession plans or um next generations coming up that's that's where most businesses end and there's no such thing as an eternal business they all end sometime um and you you you reach that point and it's like okay well what do I have to sell now what do I have as as my retirement uh the body of my life's work what does it amount to well if I'm going to retire in two years I don't have any kids I don't have any succession plan then it's a fire auction you sell the assets for their salvage value and the show's over um and so what drives us to keep going is uh if there are if there are kids if there are grandkids if there's anybody else that's ever interested well we want to What do you want your next generation to inherit a bunch of debt in a show or a good system with promise and opportunity yeah yeah I guess that goes into makes me think like you personally then how do you want to be known for future generations after you're gone do you think you want to be known as the Sherman guy or what else what do you want to be known for i mean I'll be dead so it doesn't really matter what what they what they say it either it goes one of either way someone's like I this is my legacy or I don't even get Yeah i mean would that be cool if they built a statue in you know my honor and you know worshiped it yeah I mean but it's not like I'm going to appreciate it i'm going to be dead so that's a good point no I I what I I just want them to uh to have opportunity um and more importantly to know that there that there's opportunity whether it's whether it's with this family business or anywhere in life you know one of the saddest things to witness is uh someone who doesn't think that they have options or opportunity and every I almost everybody does i'm sure there there's a handful of you know somebody will point out well this person doesn't but for the most part we all have opportunity how much of that is circumstantial versus self-inflicted yeah um luck has is a big factor i mean I'm not arrogant enough to think that uh that we manifested everything about it being in the right place at the right time is is uh certainly helpful but there are prerequisites right working hard is just a prerequisite you have to be willing to do that you have to have you know a certain amount of humility and willingness and uh pleasantness for people to help you because you're not going to get anywhere without people helping you and if you're just a complete 247 nobody's going to help you so you have to have all of those things that are somewhat within your control to be ready right uh if you're not at if you don't show up for the game how are you going to win and those are all just uh things that uh are necessary ingredients but they don't guarantee it right if um I I I was thinking about this the other day uh if hard work alone was all that it took the citizens of third world countries might be the wealthiest people on the planet because every once in a while you watch a video Yeah of some dude or dudes just working their ass off thinking "Oh my god I couldn't keep that up for 10 minutes." And they do it seven days a week for a lifetime so don't tell me hard work is the key to success cuz there are billions of people that work way harder than I have ever worked a minute in my life i think everyone stumbled across a good 3:00 a.m rabbit hole of people building a pool in the middle of a jungle with hand tools dude that was my first thought a little Filipino boy with a stick carving out a full pool and it looks incredible by the end it's like that here would be a $100,000 piece of architecture in someone's backyard he's taking craftsmanship and skill combining it with hard work in horrible conditions with limited resources and building something beautiful and you're going to tell me that you live in America and there's just there's nothing out there you just Yeah it's it's opportunity go knock on some doors or something preparation meeting opportunity yeah like these also these people make let's not even church this up like these people make amazing money off of the views that they get from these videos i actually just watched a video about this recently talking about how like how many tens of thousands of dollars they make when they post a video because of how many views they get now but originally when they're starting out like making no money making this for nobody other than themselves i guess I don't know if they're paid to make this or not i would assume not oh oh in some circumstances but when you see a video of a um of a brick factory where they're where they're hand making you know real brick this is not real brick by the way where they're like a they retail for like a penny a piece right so how much do you think that guy is making you know and it's a whole factory you know or whole room full of these you know people make handmaking these bricks they're getting paid far less than a penny a piece for them seven days a week uh that's not a video that's going viral that any of those workers are seeing a nickel from not one nickel probably not a lot of a lot of cameras in that factory either that they're pumping these things out there's not a lot of pride in that I would think right i'm really proud of this brick here so that's that's two different worlds the guy who sets up his camera in the jungle to build that pool that you're talking about yeah now that's that's for that purpose but just somebody taking uh uh 15 seconds 10 or 15 seconds in you know one of those environments where they're making something with hard hard labor that doesn't have a lot of value right they're not making vasees voes vase eyes very fancy of you vases very fancy for tens of thousands of dollars they're making a brick right yeah very true very true and that's something to be said about just business in general too right if you build a quality product it's going to be worth more if you're building a Yeah so now you take all of those prerequisites and you apply them to something that has value you know you apply all that effort to something that the world wants or needs right that there's a huge difference too than I'm doing this for myself because I love art you know well great maybe you know a hundred years after you're dead Tiffany's will auction it for a million dollars right right well that was like something that I found interesting about finding out that Picasso died in like the ' 70s or whatever you know first off I thought this guy was like way older you know and uh it was rumored that uh or maybe it was Van Go yeah it was Van Go that like basically sold no paintings while he was alive dirt poor his entire life died not being successful and now his paintings are worth millions yeah you know how much of that translates over to what you take on building pole sheds do you think that there's a timeless aspect to it or like what's the future of the business when you're designing and building some of these things um well kind of like what I was saying before was um I'll be dead so it won't matter a whole lot to me but before I die I want them to have that opportunity and if they squander it all and um uh change the routines uh drop the commitment uh or try to coast through it and lose it all well that's on them uh if they want to perpetuate it to the next level for one more generation great and then it's the question of the next generation and the next I mean nothing lasts forever as much as you'd like to you know fantasize about you know building something that's going to last a millennial great right it' be nice if it does but each generation has that responsibility you know themselves whatever you start with a little or a lot um you know it's up to that generation to figure out how to what to do with it what do you think is harder trying to run a pole building company or building the pole sheds themselves oh I love building sheds there's like there's no thinking involved you know to that uh and um once you reach a certain point um after you've been doing it you know 25 30 years it's just pure joy you you play music that you know it's not too loud depending upon the neighborhood that you're at uh and you just do what you've been doing since you know before kindergarten and that's the story I tell as I put the puzzle together my mom because she made me go to kindergarten and all I wanted to do is go build a shed how how often are you jumping back in with the crew these days not very not very often do do you every once in a while you ever get the hands dirty so currently I reserve my tool belt for uh volunteer work mostly we support the uh the Cana County Egg Society sure that puts on the fair in in Mora and that's that's where I put my tool belt on yeah it's a good balance you know you got to get back out there and Yeah i I mean I probably should I could spend less time in the gym if I just wore my tool belt in real life doing real work every once in a while um for sure but um it's easy to get lost in the field right because you can you can say you know I'm going to leave my phone in my truck everybody's just going to have to wait to get back to me until the end of the day because I'm doing you know I'm building a shed i'm doing really important work right now it's easy to use that as a justification for just getting lost in the you know fun beautiful experience of building a shed and but then really uh are you just neglecting you know all of your other responsibilities because when you have 80 employees uh that's that's fun to say and to have but you have a responsibility to each one of them too if they need something and you're the guy that can solve a problem or answer a question uh or help move something along you have to be available for them right now i mean well going back to that same thought process too like you haven't always worked at Sherman you stepped away to go do your own thing you've done multiple ventures outside of Sherman yeah yeah i mean never too far away right yeah um so during the housing crash um I worked for a friend in his uh media company for uh almost two years um then uh my wife and I and uh two of my siblings went to uh Northern California and built fitness clubs um and then I I really love big trucks i think they're super cool so I started a trucking company that's a horrible idea uh uh and we did over the road trucking and then eventually did some work in the in the oil fields in North Dakota and Texas what what possessed you to get out of the family business to go do your own thing well at at dur during all of that you know my kids were either too young or they were uh the oldest was in college and doing his own thing and so I I didn't know what the next you know generation was going to look like um and dur during the housing crash during that recession um I wanted to keep as many key people in place you know in the optimism that someday you know work was going to bounce back so I just removed myself uh and let other people keep their positions rather than laying people off um other than that it's it's once the kids came back though or now I have two two of my our three boys are there now it feels like I have a real purpose for why to stay there to stay focused on definitely was there an expectation in your household to work for Sherman or was it pretty open to do whatever you want no no um and uh more so the expectation was if you're going to work here you better bring something unique and special to the table um go to college or go get some other life experience that you can uh bring back and not be like the uh uh the guys that ride around in the buggies the Amish yeah i mean you know if if we're not diverse enough if we don't have enough experience outside our little bubble then how do we gain from you know uh other knowledge and other experience so yeah go out figure out something new something unique to bring back was there any part of you when your own children started working there with you having the position that you are at Sherman were you worried at all that they would almost feel like assassinating me to take over well more of where like you know oh my my dad's the big wig around here were you worried that that was going to be an attitude that was brought into the workplace where they That's necessary it's it's ab absolutely necessary uh because if they were uh you know too arrogant or cocky about it um you know the the world of of safe places in school you know where you can't bully that that doesn't that doesn't exist outside of school property um so we I talked about that before too and earning earning respect and if you want respect you have to give it first of all and then and then you have to produce something or demonstrate something to earn it back right so yeah if they walked in uh too arrogant or thinking this is my dad's place good luck with that because uh uh if anything they're probably treated more harshly than any other new guy because of that because it's obvious I mean there's a target on their back and so when they up everybody knows about it and I up constantly my kids up constantly we all do uh and and uh it doesn't matter who you are you need to be called out for it uh so that you can learn try better next time so actually um before we end this thing I would uh I wanted to show you this photo that actually that we found and uh we were told that you were actually in a rock band in high school and we found this image of you while you were in this band how come you didn't pursue this dream of being a rock star there's there's one reason and one reason only for singing and playing the guitar and it's to get girls and uh I was lucky enough to get one um at a at a young age met my wife when we were in high school was it the band that helped you make it 100% she will deny she claims she never saw any of our uh any of our concerts never went to any of our shows but I I know for a fact she was there she got ratted out she was a hardcore uh fan um so yeah it worked it did its job and I I haven't played a guitar since you met your wife pretty much yeah retired the pick yeah now if uh she smartens up and and leaves me someday guess who's gonna learn how to play guitar again and has two thumbs this guy that's funny well before we end this thing is there any piece of knowledge that you could drop on someone that has a dream of owning a construction business themselves yeah acceptance that you don't know anything and I really I don't know anything um but there's this thing called books or things called books read them study them because uh what what you and I can discuss and discover here uh today or in in in a lifetime of of hanging out is nothing compared to what's out there uh now we have the convenience of YouTube and and you know all of the internet um but just learn just hold your opinions lightly with your fingertips so they can be easily challenged and replaced with better opinions and better ideas uh because in one lifetime you can never learn everything that you know can help you so read learn boom that's all you need to do youtube it have to if you can't read dude with chat GPT that's going to that's almost a little too close to home everyone's going to stop learning how to read and and uh even quit learning how to look something up on Google and just start typing it into chat you know when when the uh written language you know first came out that was the big uh fear was that people were going to forget how to tell stories right because you don't need to tell a story anymore it's just written so every generation of technology something is potentially lost um but the society is still perpetuating we're still growing and we're going to be dead so we don't even care about it that's right let them figure it out all right Steve thank you so much for coming on we will uh we'll see you next time all right sounds great thank you - Generated with https://kome.ai